Help reading Altares record

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doreen...@gmail.com

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Jun 24, 2019, 1:03:38 PM6/24/19
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I can not read this record at all. I only know that it is the marriage record for Manuel Coelho and Maria Vieira. This comes from the Terceira Marriage index.

It is the bottom record on the right side of the page. Any additional information would be appreciated. Thanks, Doreen Caetano

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P80.html

 

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Ângela Loura

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Jun 24, 2019, 3:57:34 PM6/24/19
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That's a tough one... I tried highlighting it, but i think the important info is faded at the bottom...

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Sam (Camas, WA)

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Jun 24, 2019, 8:42:14 PM6/24/19
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Out of curiosity, can anyone comment on how common a name Coelho is in the Azores.  My Coelho line comes from Santa Maria.

 

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

Cheri Mello

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Jun 25, 2019, 10:09:41 AM6/25/19
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I've seen it and know people who have it. It's not the most common Silva & Silveira. It's not rare either. So in the middle? Cheri

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Sam (Camas, WA)

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Jun 25, 2019, 6:03:02 PM6/25/19
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Thanks Cheri.  When I was in Lisbon, many years ago. I notice a lot of store fronts with The name Coelho, my surname, on them.  I figured it was like “Jones or Smith” in the U.S.   

 

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

 

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Ângela Loura

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Jun 25, 2019, 11:39:11 PM6/25/19
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Hi Sam,

Last names derived from animals, places, nicknames or food are pretty common all over Portugal, and Coelho is defintelly one of them. But as Cheri said, not at the level of Silva, for example.

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Marcos Saturno

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Jun 26, 2019, 7:56:29 AM6/26/19
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Hey Sam,
I don’t think Coelho is as such a common surname such as Smith or Jones.
I can only tell from my own experience, but I grew up in pretty much a Portuguese ‘colony’ in Rio de Janeiro and never came across many then (most of my classmates had a Portuguese parent and sometimes both.)
Though not every Brazilian is from Portuguese origin, I think my Brazilian experience could help put things into perspective as most people in my generation has a Portuguese surname (or family name) and we also use the ‘2 surname’ Portuguese tradition: mother’s family name followed by the father’s family name. This way, a person’s heritage is sometimes more obvious.
Saying that, I’m not sure how common it is in the Azores.
I only have ever met one Coelho in Brazil (a high school friend) and one in Portugal (she was from Setúbal) 
I’m sure you are aware Coelho means ‘rabbit’ and is one of the many ‘animal or tree name’ surnames attributed to Jews forced to convert to Catholicism to avoid expulsion from Portugal like Lobo (wolf), Carneiro (Lamb), Pinto (chick) or Carvalho (oak), Pereira (pear tree) and Oliveira (olive tree). I’d say that Carvalho and especially Oliveira is far more common than Coelho for example.
I guess the most common Portuguese surnames are Silva and Santos (including varieties such as da Silva and dos Santos).
Found in every corner of continental Portugal, the islands,  Brazil and ALL of the former colonies, including Goa and Damão now in India.
I recently met a colleague from Madeira at work who told me that he thought my own surname ‘de Menezes’, is more common in the islands rather than in continental Portugal, I still don’t know where my ancestors from that side came from (or my mother’s side for that matter though I have a good match in São Jorge.)
However, I read an article a few years ago, that stated that not all Portuguese ‘animal or tree name’ surnames could definitely trace back to new Christian ancestors.
In any case, a new Christian surname would place your ancestors in Portugal for a few centuries I think.
Greetings from grey London, we are expecting a heatwave though, so we’ll soon enjoying ‘barbecue weather’ as the English say!
Regards, Marcos 



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Sam (Camas, WA)

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Jun 26, 2019, 11:06:32 AM6/26/19
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Marcos;  Thank you so much for this extended reply.  Yes, I did know that Coelho meant rabbit but; no, I did not known that most animal, etc. names came about because of the new Christians having to hide being in truth a Jew.  That is very interesting to me. 

 

Like many of us whose ancestors are from the Azores, I have ancestors who immigrated to Brazil.  I have had a couple of dna matches from there. Although, we have not yet been able to pin down the immigrating ancestor.  One line does however; show Menezes in it.  Perhaps, we too are cousins. 😊 

 

Again, thank you for this information.

 

From sunny, hot and humid Mazatlán, Mexico

 

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

Sam (Camas, WA)

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Jun 26, 2019, 11:07:33 AM6/26/19
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Thank you Angela, I’m starting to get a better picture of it now.

 

Appreciate your input,

Sonia Pacheco

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Jun 26, 2019, 12:16:09 PM6/26/19
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There is no historical evidence that this is true:  "most animal, etc. names came about because of the new Christians having to hide being in truth a Jew" and in fact there is much more evidence that this was not the case. 

I can provide multiple citations disproving this fact if folks are interested, however, the vast majority are in Portuguese, hence why I haven't provided them here since I know most people on this list don't read fluent Portuguese.

Sonia 



Sónia Pacheco

Librarian Archivist, Ferreira-Mendes Portuguese-American Archives

Library Liaison, Portuguese, History, Foreign Languages

Claire T. Carney Library, UMass Dartmouth

Tel. 508-999.8695



From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:06 AM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading Altares record
 
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Ângela Loura

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Jun 26, 2019, 6:19:57 PM6/26/19
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Sonia, exactly!

De qualquer modo, e ao contrário de uma crença enraizada, os apelidos baseados em nomes de plantas e de animais não são necessariamente de descendentes dos judeus convertidos à força ao catolicismo, ou seja, cristãos-novos.
- QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, DESCUBRA AS SUAS ORIGENS - Manual de Genealogia e História da Família, 2016, p. 182.

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JR

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Jun 26, 2019, 11:39:04 PM6/26/19
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Many years ago Doug Holmes commented on this subject. I can't quite recall to which islands he  was referring, but he essentially said that one island was predominately Coelho, while another was predominantly Raposo. The point being that it is possible for certain names to predominate on certain islands or at least within certain villages or concelhos. For example Medeiros and Furtado is quite widespread and common throughout most of Sao Miguel. Yes within certain villages, it hardly appears. Azores is so small that it is not surprising certain names are more common or dominant than others.

Costa, Pacheco and Rodrigues  are very common but not as easy to associate with a single village, because they are so widespread.

JR
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Sam (Camas, WA)

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Jun 27, 2019, 1:13:51 PM6/27/19
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Thanks for this JR.  Doug, if you’re reading this, care to comment?

 

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

 

From: JR
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 9:39 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading Altares record

 

Many years ago Doug Holmes commented on this subject. I can't quite recall to which islands he  was referring, but he essentially said that one island was predominately Coelho, while another was predominantly Raposo. The point being that it is possible for certain names to predominate on certain islands or at least within certain villages or concelhos. For example Medeiros and Furtado is quite widespread and common throughout most of Sao Miguel. Yes within certain villages, it hardly appears. Azores is so small that it is not surprising certain names are more common or dominant than others.

 

Costa, Pacheco and Rodrigues  are very common but not as easy to associate with a single village, because they are so widespread.

 

JR
On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 6:19:57 PM UTC-4, Ângela Loura wrote:

Sonia, exactly!

 

De qualquer modo, e ao contrário de uma crença enraizada, os apelidos baseados em nomes de plantas e de animais não são necessariamente de descendentes dos judeus convertidos à força ao catolicismo, ou seja, cristãos-novos.

- QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, DESCUBRA AS SUAS ORIGENS - Manual de Genealogia e História da Família, 2016, p. 182.

 

Sonia Pacheco <spac...@umassd.edu> escreveu no dia quarta, 26/06/2019 à(s) 17:16:

There is no historical evidence that this is true:  "most animal, etc. names came about because of the new Christians having to hide being in truth a Jew" and in fact there is much more evidence that this was not the case. 

 

I can provide multiple citations disproving this fact if folks are interested, however, the vast majority are in Portuguese, hence why I haven't provided them here since I know most people on this list don't read fluent Portuguese.

 

Sonia 

 

 

 

Sónia Pacheco

Librarian Archivist, Ferreira-Mendes Portuguese-American Archives

Library Liaison, Portuguese, History, Foreign Languages

Claire T. Carney Library, UMass Dartmouth

Tel. 508-999.8695

 

 

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